Toby ([info]wintrmute) wrote,
@ 2008-08-05 14:25:00
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Current location:Richmond
Entry tags:geek, review, vista, windows

Vistatic first impressions
So I finally managed to get Vista installed last week, and have been using it a bit since then.
Now I know this might not be what you'd expect me to say.. but I think I prefer it over XP already. It's definitely an improvement in some ways!

The Start Menu has been hidden away, and replaced with some icons for commonly used items, plus a box to type in which will "do what you mean", a-la Sherlock and Quicksilver on the Mac, Tracker on GNOME(Linux) and Launchy on XP. FFS, finally! So that's a big win, IMO.

Next up, the user vs administrator separation. Sure, it does seem annoying that you have to stop and Authorise actions, but you know what? What is a good thing. I *like* knowing that run-away apps or naughty programs can't just sneak around modifying firewall rules or any old system files without my permission. You only need to do this authorisation stuff when you're installing new programs or modifying lower-level settings, so after your initial period of setup it doesn't get in the way. I'm not sure why there was such a fuss made about this. (Or maybe I'm just used to having to do it occasionally, having used *NIX and Macs before?)

I heard a lot of complaints about performance, but it doesn't seem too bad. Startup time is comparable to XP, possibly even slightly faster! General use, clicking menus, loading programs, etc seems fine too. Copying files, which I've heard gripes about, seemed to take longer to start copying than reasonable (ie. more than milliseconds) but wasn't what I would call delayed. The new File Explorer windows take some getting used to as they've changed the behaviour to be more like the Mac and Gnome UI, but still keeping aspects of the old way. I haven't made my mind up about whether it's easier or harder to use, yet.

So far I've only tested the in-game performance of Crysis.. at highest detail level, yeah, it ran a bit slow, ~15-20 fps with some hiccups.. but then, in highest detail, under XP, it also runs like a dog.. I think i lost about 5fps going to Vista, but keep in mind that under Vista it runs in "Ultra-high" detail, vs "High" in XP, and thus it's looking nicer in Vista in return for those FPS I lost. I'll need to test some other less stupidly-poorly-performing games too.
And probably buy some more RAM now I have an OS that can play games AND handle 4GB. :P
(Windows XP famously won't deal with more than 3GB of RAM)
But the complaint that Vista runs games at literally half the speed of XP doesn't seem justified.

Driver support: Well, my nVidia 8800GT and the Creative X-Fi were supported by 64bit vista drivers available from the manufacturers website, and nothing has crashed, so that seems alright. I'm afraid I don't have any exotic hardware in the gaming machine, so haven't got anything else to test! The various features provided by the motherboard (usb, network, etc) were all supported out of the box by Vista fine, and I wasn't surprised that my common USB devices also were supported.
I have a $3.00 USB MIDI adaptor winging it's way to me from the distant lands of China, via eBay, and that'll probably be more of a test :)

Software like DaemonTools worked just fine.

I haven't encountered any of the DRM that is meant to be under the surface, yet. But then, that would only apply if I used the machine for media (music, video, etc), rather than just gaming and surfing the web. (I still boot into Linux or Leopard for anything else!) However it does worry me that it's there.

Some gripes:
* Modal dialog windows are STILL not resizeable. Come on! Why not? What's wrong with making the "Save As" dialog box bigger than a postage stamp? On modern monitors, it's getting stupid.
* The default 'Off' button in the menu is actually Standby. You have to get into a little side-menu to get to the "Restart" and "Actually turn off damnit" options.
* Erm, it DID take me 5 attempts and a new hard drive to get it installed, although it was easy when it finally went on.
* I did note that Ableton Live (6.0.10) worked fine with DirectX input/output, but when I tried to use ASIO i/o everything went silent. I have no idea if that's Creative or Ableton's fault, but Live 6 is fairly old, and I had forgotten to switch the soundcard to 'Music production' mode. (The X-Fi is unique in having modes for Gaming, Music and Music production.)
* Windows still doesn't automatically pick up nearby printers. OSX and Gnome have been doing this for ages.

A note: All of this was tested on a recent copy of Vista (64 bit edition) with SP1 streamlined, and the latest drivers for my sound and video, on a high-end machine (Hitachi 500 GB SATA HDD, Core 2 Duo 2.88 GHz, 2 GB DDR800 RAM, 1GB ReadyBoost). I suspect this helps matters - I've heard from friends that SP1 made Vista usable, and that driver support was terrible initially, but decent now.. and I am running it on a moderately-well-specced machine.

Conclusion: I'm still going to continue to use Linux and MacOSX more than Vista, but all-in-all, I don't think Vista is as slow and unusable as its reputation. I don't see myself going back to XP.
On the other hand, it's interesting to see that the noticeable improvements have been blatantly nicked from its competitors, and nothing particularly interesting has been added beyond that.. and in return it's bloated out to using a huge amount of RAM and disk space.




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[info]illdrinn
2008-08-05 05:07 am UTC (link)
I think having waited till SP1 makes a big difference.

There are still a number of large problems I have that I am resolving with running one drive as an XP Virtual Machine.

Main issues I've had:

I had to turn off the autosearch as it was using about 70% of my CPU at all times
I still can't update iTunes or Thunderbird as it fails with a "not trusted software" or "you don't have priveleges" even though I'm an admin
It took me 3 months to network to my macs
Sims 2 still has giant video compatibility issues with my Vista video drivers (as this is pretty much the only PC game I play this is mega annoying)

Before I tried the VM I tried to run XP on a separate disk (doesn't work with the SATA drivers well sadly) and it takes about 1/4 of the time to start up. If it weren't for the fact that Vista came preinstalled and ergo I don't have install media I'd seriously consider downgrading.

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[info]wintrmute
2008-08-05 05:16 am UTC (link)
Ah, that's interesting to hear.
I haven't had it running long enough for Firefox or Thunderbird to try and do a self-upgrade.
I think I fiddled with the autosearch to restrict it to a smaller subset of files, and to not run as much.. and also there's a lot less files on there currently as its a fresh disk.

The networking to my Linux and Mac boxes seemed to work straight away for me, but that was only going in one direction -- TO them, rather than sharing files off Vista. Might see what happens with that tonight then.

It's interesting that you mention the SATA issue.. that's actually one of my drivers for trying to get Vista going. I find it nearly frigging impossible to get XP to install these days, since I don't have a floppy drive, and XP doesn't support *anything* out of the box these days. Since I have a SATA DVDROM drive, the XP installer wouldn't even get as far as demanding a floppy last time I tried. >.< (not that I could have given it one)

I think the last several times I got XP installed I had to use a hacked-up illegitimate version which had my drivers slipstreamed into it.. but then after the sata dvdrom problem popped up, I've just been using Linux to migrate the XP disk image across hard drives over time, but this was getting silly! (And also highlights that I'm a lot more savvy with Linux than Windows)

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[info]illdrinn
2008-08-05 06:46 am UTC (link)
Firefox seems to be fine, Thunderbird does not, though a weird hack is if I uninstall my webcam software, update Thunderbird and then reinstall my webcam software it works... but of course my auto update doesn't know to do that and I come home to it stuck in an infinite loop every so often.

I really do think that the SP1 may account for the network items working okay; we had to put in hacks to get it to talk to the Linux/Mac machines but now new machines turn up fine. I can read/write both directions between Vista and other OSes though I did have to set up a password on my primary accounts before it would work (presumeably invisible enforced security).

I've had absolutely no problems with installing XP; the issue that I have is that if you try and have both Vista and XP on different drives on the same machine it screws with the Bootloaders. I can have each working separately with the machine but if I try and plug in both drives at the same time it all goes to hell. I found a bit of a haxx0r but decided it was all too difficult. Interestingly enough when I tried to set up the XP VM with my secondary physical drive as the source drive for the VM it had similar problems and gave me warnings about the SATA driver compatibility so I decided it was all too hard and just created a virtual disk the size of the drive. What sort of drives are you running that the XP installer doesn't come with drivers out of the box?

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[info]wintrmute
2008-08-05 07:00 am UTC (link)
I'm just running standard SATA I and SATA II drives, off an Intel SATA chipset on a standard motherboard!

I can run the SATA ports in AHCI mode, IDE mode, or Legacy mode.
Vista, OSX and Linux work with the first two, I think XP will only work in the latter, where it emulates PATA IDE somehow, but I can't remember if I tried it recently. Previous m/board didn't have the option, and XP didn't work with either.

As far as I understand, performance improves towards AHCI, and degrades towards Legacy.

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[info]maelorin
2008-08-05 06:00 am UTC (link)
i've been hearing more positive stories regarding vista since the sp1 release.

my hardware is 'vista ready' but below the specs i've seen vista running comfortably upon (particularly in the video arena), so i'll be waiting a little longer and giving it a burl early next year when machine upgrade/replace time arrives.

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[info]wintrmute
2008-08-05 06:12 am UTC (link)
I've seen Vista SP1 running on a 2GHz core2 machine with 2gb ram and a slower laptop harddrive, with intel gma950 graphics, and it was still terrible.

But that's the hardware platform that people are suing Intel+Microsoft over, for falsely claiming it was within minimum specs, so I guess it's not surprising it simply doesn't run well on it at all.

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[info]maelorin
2008-08-05 08:57 am UTC (link)
and that's not a lot different to the specs of black sun here, so i'm keeping way from vista for now as a result.

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[info]alexmc
2008-08-05 07:12 am UTC (link)
> $3.00 USB MIDI

Gosh - I am just starting with MIDI and thought they were a lot more expensive than that...

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[info]wintrmute
2008-08-05 07:17 am UTC (link)
Well, the shipping from China was another $4 or $5 I think..
but yeah, the adaptors are cheap and cheerful. They just have a couple of DIN-5 plugs on one end, and a USB plug on the other.. MIDI is a rather slow and simple (by modern standards) protocol, so easy to make adaptors for.

I gather modern MIDI hardware devices tend to have actual USB plugs on them directly.. I just need the adaptor because I'm using an old MIDI keyboard I bought back in the 90s. (And may or may not work now.. it's been gathering dust in my parent's house for many years)

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[info]alexmc
2008-08-05 08:01 am UTC (link)
I just borrowed an old MIDI keyboard from a friend - and although I have the necessary MIDI cable to connect it to my Ubuntu Studio desktop machine it would maker sense to connect it to my Powerbook - which only has USB, not MIDI.

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[info]wintrmute
2008-08-05 08:27 am UTC (link)
You'll want something like this, but shop around for one with cheaper shipping..
USB to MIDI adapter

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